It's true the NHS is crap

[jenny]

My family's experience of the NHS has been truly awful. Negligent treatment for a child's joint infection leading to numerous operations, chronic pain and arthritis at the tender age of 16. The hospital involved, Kingston, covered up the negligence by pretending that the complications were due to something other than their crappy treatment. The cover-up was continued when we insisted on a second opinion which obviously wasn't independent. When we tried to take legal action, the medical expert witnesses lied in their reports so that we had no case! This is despite very basic errors of the type that a second year medical student would know about.

The old boys' network is alive and kicking in the medical profession - it really is like the mafia. The lawyers know what is going on but let them get away with it as they get paid anyway so don't really care what compensation the injured patient gets. Also, it is so hard to complain as you are having to fight against such a well-established, fairly corrupt system which has built very hall walls around it. The patient really does seem to come at the bottom of the heap - there is no proper advocacy body for the patient and short of voting in a new government, how can patients really effect any changes? It's not like you can vote in a new board of directors or something.

When anything goes wrong (as it often does because there is so little quality control) it is all whitewash and a cover-up. The complaints system is no better with hospital trusts doing all they can to bury any evidence of malpractice.

Is this really how we want to see our hard-earned money being spent? Until there is better quality control, accountability and patient power, with the patient being put back into the heart of the service, the NHS will continue to offer a third world service.

(However, if you have money or connections, you can work the system and access good healthcare - so it is not true that the NHS offers an equal service for all. It most certainly does not.) I think we should scrap a state-funded healthcare system and look at European style systems which seems to offer much better health care.

[Elen]

I have to say that's quite a string of allegations you've just made. Whilst obviously you have the right to be angry over alleged negligent treatment, I would argue against the patient coming "bottom of the heap".

The majority of doctors (agreed, it should be all, but like everyone else they are not perfect) put the patient first and always have; even before the government's ridiculous "patient centred care". It's a healthcare service, it's always been about the care of patients.

Yes, I agree that we should have a system like other countries where we have to pay at the point of access - brilliant system. Yep, going with who can and can't afford decent insurance to cover their healthcare - wonderful. Then the divide between quality of care of the rich and poor will continue to grow, but that's ok so long as we don't have a state-funded system.

I'm not saying I've not had views of the NHS I would rather not see. My grandad received appalling "care" from a hospital in the north of England - nurses sitting around doing nothing while he needed bandages changing etc. It was truly sickening.

However, having worked in the NHS for a number of years I have seen first-hand the dedication of people working in this area. We put up with public scrutiny more than any other sector in society, have to deal with government spouting lies about GP wages and trying to lay the blame for the new contract at GPs' doors.

When all's said and done, if you are really ill you are seen and treated, irrespective of your class, income, race and religion. There is true value to a state-funded healthcare system. It's a pity collectively we no longer value it or our doctors, because soon it will be gone and many of the doctors along with it and then what will everyone do?

[jenny]

Well - we will just have a different health care system which might be better. I do not dispute that there are caring, very committed people working in the NHS. I just think that the service probably needs some fairly drastic changes. In my view it is over-politicised, too centralised and self-servicing. Why hang on to something that so many people seem to be dissatisfied with, not just patients but those working in it too? Huge amounts of money go into the NHS. In my experience, a lot is squandered. There is a lack of proper accountability and quality control. You can access very good treatment, but it is a hit and miss affair. Okay, call me cynical, but I just DREAD the thought of going anywhere near a GP service or a hospital these days. I would rather do my own diagnosis using the excellent resources available over the internet and pay to refer myself or a member of my family to a specialist who is highly recommended. Yes I have been unfortunate enough to have had bad experiences - but so have many, many other people. I just don't think you can risk leaving things to chance. Also, if you are elderly or already in poor health, I think an NHS ward is not a good place to be. The mrsa thing is scary and there is rationing going on.

[rsk]

The NHS really is crap Jenny.

My wife has been caring for an elderly lady for years, and is her designated next of kin. This lady needed cateracts removed, but Burnley General messed up big time and she ended up with ulcers behind one eye, and damaged the cornea of the other. We could not prove anything at this point.

She finally went private where the ulcers were cleared up although it was too late to save the sight of this eye, and had a cornea transplant. She was fine until six weeks ago when she fell and had a hairline fracture of her hip, and was admitted to Airedale General in Keighley West Yorks

The negligence of the orthopedic doctor and nursing staff has been unbelievable. The doctor withdrew one of her eye medications, without asking her private consultant, which has resulted in the ulcers returning. Her other medications one of which is an anti rejection drug have not been administered correctly and her other eye has deteriorated terribly.

My wife made a formal complaint, and what has subsequently happened, you could not make up. The day after the complaint went in, they informed my wife that they were discharging the lady to rehab for her hip. her social worker said no, as she could not find her anywhere at such short notice, and in any case she could not put full weight on her hip.

The next day they said she could put full weight on it, the doctor had forgotten to put it in her notes. My wife found her a place at a BUPA home for rehab as she does not trust an ordinary place to treat the elderly lady correctly, and informed the social worker. Within two hours the social worker had found her a county council home. This was not acceptable to my wife, and the fun then really began.

Firstly the Chief executive wrote and told my wife that no information would be given to her about the lady's treatment unless she obtained written consent from her, despite my wife being next of kin.

Secondly the discharge manager and a physiotherapist with the connivance of the social worker, began to browbeat the lady not to go private, this is continuing.

Thirdly the discharge manager told my wife that the private home had phoned to say they did not have a rehab bed. I phoned the home manager who said she was lying, that she had phoned the hospital to inform them that she was sending two nurses to assess the lady's needs, and they had told her that the lady was being sent home with a rehab package. The very same day they had told my wife that she was going to the county council home. They are scared witless of her going in a private home, as they are fully aware that her private consultant is to visit her.

The people at this hospital are lying through their teeth to cover their mess up. My solicitors are now involved but warn of a long hard battle.

Needless to say this hospital despise my wife.

Really to say the NHS is crap is an understatement, it is downright bloody lethal. I will never again use it.

[jenny]

So sorry to hear about your awful experiences. Unfortunately, I do not think they are unusual. However, that does not make it acceptable. I wish we could all change things for the better - the NHS is not great, but going private is not brilliant either.

[zippyRN]

<snip>Firstly the Chief executive wrote and told my wife that no information would be given to her about the lady's treatment unless she obtained written consent from her, despite my wife being next of kin.

.


'next of kin' means the square root of bugger all, the Chief exec is absolutely correct that any disclosure requires consent of the patient.

or shall we ( the NHs, or health care professionals and providers in total) start sending information out to anyone that asks ...

this kind of thing is the second most annoying thing aobut working in healthcare the most annoying thing being peopel who do not understand that that regardless of who you say you are we will only give limited information over the phone - especially if you cannot positvely identify key facts...

[KitFox]

My family's experience of the NHS has been truly awful. Negligent treatment for a child's joint infection leading to numerous operations, chronic pain and arthritis at the tender age of 16. The hospital involved, Kingston, covered up the negligence by pretending that the complications were due to something other than their crappy treatment. The cover-up was continued when we insisted on a second opinion which obviously wasn't independent. When we tried to take legal action, the medical expert witnesses lied in their reports so that we had no case! This is despite very basic errors of the type that a second year medical student would know about.

The old boys' network is alive and kicking in the medical profession - it really is like the mafia. The lawyers know what is going on but let them get away with it as they get paid anyway so don't really care what compensation the injured patient gets. Also, it is so hard to complain as you are having to fight against such a well-established, fairly corrupt system which has built very hall walls around it. The patient really does seem to come at the bottom of the heap - there is no proper advocacy body for the patient and short of voting in a new government, how can patients really effect any changes? It's not like you can vote in a new board of directors or something.

When anything goes wrong (as it often does because there is so little quality control) it is all whitewash and a cover-up. The complaints system is no better with hospital trusts doing all they can to bury any evidence of malpractice.

Is this really how we want to see our hard-earned money being spent? Until there is better quality control, accountability and patient power, with the patient being put back into the heart of the service, the NHS will continue to offer a third world service.

(However, if you have money or connections, you can work the system and access good healthcare - so it is not true that the NHS offers an equal service for all. It most certainly does not.) I think we should scrap a state-funded healthcare system and look at European style systems which seems to offer much better health care.

You know Jenny that sounds awfully like my position, i've been left with no further choice but to have a hip replacement op and i have arthritis in my spine. All confirmed by the age of 25, but have probably existed since '00/01 and thanks to burton hospitals inept so called 'consultant' nothing has been done.

The constant excuse are trotted out each time i see them, like not having a magic wand/cystal ball etc etc.

Its interesting isnt it that as soon as you start calling them on their bad treatment of you, they claim your abusing them but they have a full licence to not only abuse your body but to totally ruin & destroy your life and you have no recourse.

There are times that these bad doctors who live in ivory towers and want to return to the 50s with the 'respect' doctors were shown then ought to be brought back down to earth with a bone shattering crash.

I can always name & shame, if you'd like. The hospital is the Queens hopsital in Burton upon trent, the offending department, orthopedics.